Redpost
My world has been so given over to Philistinism it seems an apology is in order for every creative expression.
There seems to be a new form of salivating Pavlovian creativity that functions for the ring of a bell, or some sort of treat or reward.
Far different from the driven sort of compelling creativity that had men with torches crawling far underground to conjure forms on cave walls.
Nice film.
- La Sirena said...
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The difference between just plain insane and certifiable (a person so insane they can be hospitalized and treated against their will) is the answer to the question "Is this person a danger to themselves and/or others?" If yes, all clear to ship them up to the psych ward...
The U.S. is not just insane,it's certifiable.
- Indigobusiness said...
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Yes, and in order to be certified as "sane", one must first be certifiably "insane".
Only in America.
Are you certified?
Read this:
"man's insanity is heaven's sense" - Comment Deleted
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This post has been removed by the author.
- La Sirena said...
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Nice passage. I need to read Moby Dick.
I do agree that insanity (or neurological chemical inbalances) could simply be an ability to hear the voice of the divine or (as in the MD passage) see the the divine.
But according to Christian lore, god used the angels to deliver his messages so humans wouldn't be killed by the power of his voice. Are those people who have mental health issues and can hear the voice of god actually angels?
Is it trully an "inability to cope with reality" or an example of "impaired judgement" to choose god's mission for you over the accepted dominant materialistic paradigm?
Of course, those are hypothetical questions...for many people such a level of intimacy with god results in a life of suffering, isolation, and poverty.
Sometimes god IS an asshole. - Indigobusiness said...
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GOD is NOT an Asshole, ever.
We simply live in a dualistic world.
Bliss could not be, without suffering.
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If you do read Moby Dick, don't let the drawn-out technical cetacean stuff, in the middle, throw you. It's tough to dig through.
It's a GREAT book. - La Sirena said...
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If bliss could not be
without suffering,
Then could God be,
without Assholitity?
And where would Sirena be
Without a little blasphemy? - Indigobusiness said...
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Yes, of course. Don't blame the wrong problem.
Life would be sheer hell without trial by fire. Those who are never tested are the most pathetic.
Social failings are man's fault.
You know, there are societies in the Spice Islands, for example, without neuropathologies? No mental illness at all.
People grow through pain, not pleasure. Ease brings out the worst in mankind. - La Sirena said...
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I don't know...I suspect the divine encompasses far more than our puny little human brains are capable of fathoming.
I actually blame most of our neuropathologies not on God but on our culture of disease, pollution and genetic engineering. Of course, there is about zero research to support those theories.
We've already agreed on easy. However, I would gladly accept some simplification. - Indigobusiness said...
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The crux of this is as old as the hills, but my point was that balance is the hinge of dichotomy.
Everything has its place. There is no inherent malice.
Who would choose to suffer?
We are not separate from the divine, nor the diabolical.
There are those who understand this. I don't claim to, but understanding that keeps me going. - Indigobusiness said...
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BTW- Ease and easy are different things.
Simplification...YES...by all means, that's key. - La Sirena said...
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Ease and easy can be different things -- but not so much in this context. (Indigobusiness está tan literal!)
And while I agree that inherent malice is rare -- life is not a Disney movie, thank goodness -- I'm not sure everything has it's place. But then again...we can't always see the bigger picture. But chaos is inherent and necessary in the universe. (I don't know. I need to go mull that one over for awhile.)
People make choices that cause them suffering every day -- and I know you've met some that seem to enjoy suffering and others who lack insight into the fact that they are choosing to suffer. And what about masochism and martyrdom?
The divine and the diabolical aren't separate from each other either. And yes, we are part of it.
Maybe it's something you're supposed to remember, rather than understand??? Methinks it's what's referred to as a mystery. -
- Indigobusiness said...
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We seem to be experiencing an extraordinary disconnect here, Sirena.
Ease and easy are specifically different here, that's why I mentioned it.
Your Disney movie comment is gratuitous and meaningless. The nature of things is not dependent on humans. Humans and human concerns are incidental, not central.
Of course everything has its place. How could it be otherwise?
The context went beyond pathologies. Yes, masochists exist, but the larger significance was spoken to.
"The divine and the diabolical aren't separate from each other either."??? What? Nothing could be more separated. They are polar opposites. This is the dichotomy that every conscious act hinges upon. We are not "a part of it", IT is built into the very fabric of our existence.
Mystery? What mystery?
Yes, it is circular, not linear. - La Sirena said...
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Yes, Indigobusiness, we do seem to be experiencing an extraordinary disconnect.
I feel that most of our points have denatured from the act of splitting very fine frog hairs. However, I should know better than to attempt to write anything cohesive before noon.
If you would be so kind as to indulge me, let’s rewind 2 entries.
You said,
“We are not separate from the divine, nor the diabolical.
There are those who understand this. I don't claim to, but understanding that keeps me going.”
Sentence one is essentially the central pillar Sirenaism. Well put.
To elaborate on that point, the divine and diabolical are not separated from each other -- in the way that a coin has 2 sides, yin has yang, and polarities simultaneously attract and repel.
???The hinge of dichotomy, I guess, but sometimes they bleed into each other. The borders aren't always simply defined or correctly understood. It's my main quarrel with organized religion.
Suffering is a human choice and a human creation -- neither divine, nor diabolical, nor universal. However, when you are inside of a human existence it’s difficult to maintain that perspective.
Regarding your second sentence…that kind of understanding – understanding "that" – is faith in a mystery. Two more obscure definitions of mystery are a sacramental rite and any truth that is unknowable except by divine revelation.
I like those kinds of mysteries.
Thank you for your (plenary) indulgence. - Indigobusiness said...
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In a dualistic realty, opposite poles of a dichotomy are as separate as is possible. The divine and its opposite is the quintessential dichotomy.
Suffering is not a choice, it is the stone that sharpens the blade. Without it, piercing the veil of illusion would be impossible. It has its sacred quality. Essentially universal. Faith is inconsequential to this fundament.
Do not be fooled by petty concerns of the immediate, or of the self, we live in the eternal now. It is constructed of these things. In that, there is no mystery.
No hairs have been split, only the clarification of terms.
It seems I'm still dropping-in apostrophes where inappropriate.
Aside from apologizing for that, I just want to add:
Recognizing suffering for what it is, and what it offers, is not a form of exploitation. Religion is about liberation. Love in pure form. Beyond pairs of opposites (our dualistic field of existence). Abuse of religion via subjugation is the province of church, state, etc.
Genuine humility is different than living on one's knees. And it's required for knowing genuine compassion, and, ultimately, unbound love.
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- La Sirena said...
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I wouldn’t deny an ant his reality. I also wouldn’t call it an illusion. There are alternate realities. That doesn’t make them illusory.
Sweetie, I know you didn’t cook up dualism….it is how the human world perceives things. But why should we limit our thinking to “either…or”? It seems “both…and” is a more apt worldview.
Why can’t we see without contrasts? Why can’t we see in comparisons? Wholism is interrelated and connected, not polarized. I am pieces of you as you are me and I am also river, grass, trees, love, temper tantrums, obstinacy, lightning, self-indulgence, beating drums, melted plastic, spent shells, ash, electricity, a bone chilling wind, an aria and a warm bath. And all of those are also Sirena…maybe we share a molecule and a memory. And I would not be the same me without that shared molecule with (for example) that willow tree. Same for the tree. Etcetera, etcetra, ad infinitum.
And all of us, together with the atmosphere, the solar systems and the life therein, the chemical bonds and compounds, galaxies unseen by our puny eyes, life forces unacknowledged by us humans…all of these things are a part of us as we are part of them --- whether we are aware or not. If you close your eyes and breathe deeply, if you turn off your mind – on a good day, you can feel the most miniscule subatomic particle of that vast web of connection. That larger-than-the-universe inter-connectedness is divinity -- as I understand it, in my puny, ignorant way.
Religion IS NOT about liberation.
God/ the Force/ the One IS ABOUT love and I suppose it is love that liberates us from our isolation – our fears and conception that our suffering is punishment. So maybe you are right – isolation is diabolical and in liberating ourselves from our fears we are able to tap into the connection -- or the divine.
And I would COMPARE that connection to “knowing genuine compassion, and, ultimately, unbound love.”
And sometimes that means eating a drumstick, playing in the woods, making sweet love and being thankful. - Indigobusiness said...
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We may very well live in a holographic universe. I wouldn't argue that. I believe it is pretty clear everything is interconnected. But perception of reality, and reality itself, are two very different things.
Our limited perceptions ARE illusory, because they are incomplete. They are REAL, and/or AUTHENTIC, within their own context.
Religion IS about liberation. It is about knowing the mind of God. The very word means to relink to the source...ie God. It is about transcending the things of Man.
The application (or practice, or abuse) of religion is what you speak to, not religion itself.
What it is about has nothing to do with opinion.
Every conscious choice we make hinges on the pivot of the divine/diabolical.
- JoeC said...
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You guys are hillarious...in some weird synchronicity, I just KNOW, for some reason, that President Bush was up at 2:30 wandering around the White House kitchen looking for a bottle of Coke and an opener.
- Indigobusiness said...
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Hey Joe. LOL.
Long as he doesn't log-on.
JC- I speak in some foreign tongue, in my sleep...LOUDLY. Lots of hard consonants, k sounds and such. I haven't been able to identify the language, BECAUSE I'M ASLEEP.
I've never wrangled anyone into taping it for me. I'm usually slapped silly and told to shut the fuck up. At least back in the day, when I could get someone to sleep with me. I probably snore, too. I'm beyond caring. - Jersey Cynic said...
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take a listen to this "throat singer" -- I sware I've heard him coming out of my husband during the middle of the night.
maybe you guys sound like this also?? LOL
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6493062 - Indigobusiness said...
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Us guys? I'm the only one copping to making odd noises, unless you were referring to my myriad personalities?
First time I heard this stuff was from Tibetan monks. They are fantastic.
Tuva sounds a bit demonic at first. It's an interesting cross-cultural application. Cool.
I' got a black magic woman...
One night, at a Tibetan retreat center (in Ca., not Tibet), after hearing this circular breathing technique for the first time, I woke up, sat up in bed, and began making these bizarre, weirdly circular breathing, chanting sounds. Badly done, but better than I ever figured I could. Must've been a lingering dream-state other self, just showing off. - Jersey Cynic said...
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Were you possibly in the Garden of Eden or -- were you In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida.....
Ba-a-a-a-a-a-aby??
ROTFLOL!!! - Indigobusiness said...
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Yes.
- Indigobusiness said...
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I've lived my life in the midst of a zombie pandemic.
I refuse to spawn. - La Sirena said...
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I subscribe to the hypothesis that we're all attracted to those with whom we would create the sturdiest spawn, aka children.
Even if a person has consciously decided not to reproduce, that person will still be most attracted sexually to those with whom they would create the “fittest” offspring.
Mother Nature designed us for genetic duplication and reproduction, the perpetuation of the species – probably to Her own chagrin.
We're all living in the midst of a zombie pandemic. Gold star to you for being the first one to pick up on the intended metaphor. - Indigobusiness said...
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If your theory held true to form, I'd never've been hatched.
The question is: Would've the planet been better off without my gold star existence? - La Sirena said...
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Your continued survival proves fitness. Your gold star existence proves my theory and your endless questions probably improve the planet. The trick is...we don't get to see the master plan.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about social darwinism -- but I am talking about the biological imperative that drives our instincts -- instincts we can choose to override via conscience, wisdom, experience, religious sacraments, financial incentives...
Biology may inspire us, or even cause us to prioritize -- but it doesn't override free will. - Indigobusiness said...
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Plan? What plan?
It's all instinct and impulse...URGE.
What we refer to as God's will. - Indigobusiness said...
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All the folderol of our fancy notions, pomp and circumstance, boil down to
the freewill choice between harmony and discord.
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- La Sirena said...
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Free choice, yes -- but whose interpretation of harmony and discord? Some would say it's a harmonious choice to install ridiculous laws and mandatory beliefs.
I think creating harmony is an instinctual urge, that often leads to cacophony... - Indigobusiness said...
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Balderdash!
Harmony and discord in relation to the immutable natural URGE, inherent in all that is.
Nothing arbitrary, aside from choice.
That's the rub. - La Sirena said...
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Rub-a-dub-dub...
(Enough balderdash and folderol --I am arbitrarily choosing harmony.) - Indigobusiness said...
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It's not a choice,
it's a cosmic imperative.
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If we all switched to methane as an alternative fuel. We would have a cheap source, with all the BS you and MR INDIGO produce. Our dependance on oil would cease, and peace would traverse the globe.
- Indigobusiness said...
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I used to bump into Townes, from time to time, back in the good old days of Austin. He was a good guy, always said something memorable.
Fuck you, Pelmo. - La Sirena said...
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Pelmo -- You need to listen to Townes Van Zandt. Anybody that listens to Willie as much as you do should give Townes a try. He's pure.
Second, I have a hunch that the methane produced by your bullshit may have made the hole in the ozone a few acres bigger.
Indigobusiness -- I'll bet he did.
Alot of my old Albuquerque crew seems to bounce back and forth -- a year or 2 in Austin, then back to the Land of Entrapment for awhile, ad infinitum. I think those cities are on a circuit or a ley line or something. - pelmo said...
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But at least mine you don't know it is there until you step in it.
- pelmo said...
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Just to get serious for a moment. This is for all the morons who voted "RED". Isn't it amazing how fast the price of oil and gasoline has shot up in the last two days. Oh I'm sorry,it's not big oil doing it. It's just how the market works. For you morons I will lay a big cow pie and maybe you will trip over it and bang your head, and maybe just maybe it will knock some sense into you. But we allready know the answere. You are a lost cause.
- pelmo said...
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You have to play nice Indigo, or you will be banished from the playground.
When I was young and wild and a bit more limber, I tried some of that kinky contextuall stuff. Remember I was in San Francisco in its hay day. Now that I am older I might hurt myself if I tried it. - Indigobusiness said...
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Fuck you, Pelmo...in your playground.
- La Sirena said...
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You BOTH need to play nice.
Don't make me take that maternal tone. - pelmo said...
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With your sharp rebuke, I took a time out and went and stood in the corner
- Indigobusiness said...
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What I need is beside the point.
- La Sirena said...
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Needs are never beside the point, but generally the source of the reaction.
- Indigobusiness said...
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Never say never.
They most definitely were, in this case. - La Sirena said...
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The need to say never has always been one of my venal sins.
- Indigobusiness said...
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You're a sinful wench...I've always said that.
Perfect pitch must be a fine source of confidence...and a distinct advantage, musically.
Personally, my pitch is as imperfect as the rest of me. But my ear isn't 24k tin. As my childhood cornet teacher told my folks, "...he really likes to swing out." I guess he had to say something.
So, I just tend to rely on delusions of grandeur to see me through my occassional drifts through self-sabotaging insecurities.
Nice post, Deek.
- dave bones said...
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You are really hopeful? Do you feel a breath of new air sweeping your nation? I felt like that when Blair first got in. I thought he was really inspired and things would change.
I've read a few hopeful things about the mindset of the new defence secretary.
I feel more worried.Like everyone has thought "shit- this is bad".
about Iraq. Like Iraq is going to go the way of Yugoslavia only this will have a lot worse conotations for all of us.
I'm still waiting for someone to turn up in your country with a real American vision. Politicians are so bankrupt now ts ripe for it but everyone seems too partisan. - Indigobusiness said...
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People of real vision are largely ignored, perhaps because they are too blindingly brilliant for the tired eyes of an indoctrinated culture.
I'm hopeful the suffering/misery index will be ratcheted down. That's enough for me now, enough cause to celebrate whole-heartedly.
In terms of the bigger picture, it's obvious to me we are past the tipping point with dying seas, desertifying Amazon/Congo basins, poisoned lands/waters and unprecedented mass extinction. Still, we play each hand we're dealt (as much as I despise game and sports analogies)...it's important to go forward as best we can.
The next few years will see the world waking up to the true calamity of our imploding natural world, and will expose petty politics and Machiavellian war adventure in an honest perspective and for what they truly are.
We have far less time than most people realize.
posted by Indigobusiness at 11:36 AM
I've read different oppinions over the years...so did PEAR ever really prove that experimenters were influencing their "random" machines beyond statistical norm?
11:09 AM
Considerably. Look here.
The graph spike just prior to 911 was off the charts. But they weren't measuring experimenters' influence, just the random number anomalies as influenced by whatever the hell influences them. General field of consciousness is what's suggested. The RN generators were placed around the country, or was it the planet?
But, there was no "curricular element". So, they felt compelled to shut it down. Sheesh.
Check out the remote perception results, too.
12:20 PM
What the hell is curricular element? Isn't that the easy part? Lecture, give test, grade papers...you can do that for any subject.
Wow...didn't know PEAR had been doing remote perception trials. Was more familiar with Russell Targ, Joe McMonEagle's writings about the outgrowth of the Stargate remote viewing program (mostly done without the observer at the target location, or at least an appointed observer...)
You've probably already seen this article about physicist John Wheeler, but in case you haven't, it shouldn't be missed:
http://www.discover.com/issues/jun-02/features/featuniverse/
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of...
4:09 PM
Gotta love Shakespeare, but I always come back with "Nothing new under the sun."
Both are compelling, and that's a smokin' article, but sometimes these physicists upset my chili. Particularly Wheeler and Edward Teller.
None of these guys had near the poetry in their soul that Einstein did. Now, what is not enough of a question, they presume to ask why?
That's a question for us laymen.
Wheeler was at UTexas when I was knocking around there. He never went drinking with me.
(Ignore Dr. Doom, except for entertainment purposes.)